CTVA - The Virginian 7.11 [186] "The Mustangers " 04-Dec-1968

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7.11 [186]
"The Mustangers"

Original NBC Broadcast - 4 December 1968
 Universal TV
Executive Producer Norman MacDonnell
Produced by David Levinson
Written by Norman Jolley
Directed by Charles S. Dubin

(shown in the ride in)
John McIntire as Clay Grainger (not in this episode)
Doug McClure as Trampas (not in this episode)
David Hartman as Dave Sutton
Sara Lane as Elizabeth Grainger (not in this episode)
James Drury as The Virginian

Guest stars:
James Edwards
[Ben Harper]
John Agar
[Joe Williams]
Don Knight
[Cal Hobson]
Chuck Daniel
[Dewey Harper]

Complete Ending Credits:

William Burns as Roy
Marjorie Bennett ... Soapie
Grace Lee Whitney ... Heather
Mina Martinez ... Querida
Theme Percy Faith
Director of Photography Enzo A. Martinelli
Art Director ... William J. Kenney
Film Editor ... Edward Haire, A.C.E.
Unit Manager ... Henry Kline
Assistant Director ... Donald A. Kline
Set Decorations ... John McCarthy and Perry Murdock
Sound ... Frank H. Wilkinson
Color Coordinator ... Robert Brower
Editorial Supervision ... Richard Belding
Music Supervision ... Stanley Wilson
Costumes by ... Helen Colvig
Makeup ... Bud Westmore
Hairstylist ... Larry Germain
The Title "The Virginian" by permission of EMKA LTD.

Series regular characters appearing in this episode:
The Virginian and Dave Sutton

Detailed Synopsis:

Suitcase in hand, Dewey Harper walks onto the Williams Ranch to visit his father,
Ben, who is the ranch's top wrangler. Much to his father's chagrin, Dewey has
had to drop out of school because the money ran out. He wants to work with his
father breaking mustangs, but Ben doesn't want him to; "These ain't no horses,
boy! These are mustangs and it takes a man to work 'em!" After some prodding,
Ben relents and tells Dewey to grab a bunk in the bunkhouse and "We'll talk later."

The Virginian and Dave Sutton ride in. The Shiloh foreman tells Ben they're here
"to buy some horses" and asks for Joe Williams. When Ben goes to fetch him, Williams
tells Ben, "That's a mighty fine boy you've got there." After handshakes and
introductions, the Virginian looks admiringly at Williams' stock which he needs
for an upcoming cattle drive. Joe tells him that the rest of his hands are out
on the range; "Right now, it's just Ben Harper and me trading watches. There's
been some rustling lately." The Virginian is surprised to hear the name "Ben Harper,"
whom he knows by reputation. "Best bronc-snapper that ever lived. Part mustang himself,
they say," he tells Dave. Williams calls Ben out to formally introduce him. The
Virginian says they'll be helping with the guard duty during their stay and tells
Dave to take the first watch. Dave is disappointed because he was "looking forward
to that soft bunk," but rationalizes by saying, "As William Hazlitt said, 'Satisfaction
is not lessened by being anticipated.'" This statement causes an awkward silence as
nobody quite knows how to respond. Finally, the Virginian says, "Yeah, see you at
the bunkhouse."

In the bunkhouse, the Virginian meets Ben's son, Dewey. After Dewey gushes over the
high quality of the horses and Ben's skill at breaking them, the Virginian remarks,
"You sure sound like Ben Harper's son all right!" Dewey pauses and says thoughtfully,
"Yeah, I guess I do take after him quite a bit."

Later that evening, Ben joins Dave on the night watch. He asks Dave about the Hazlitt
quotation he mentioned earlier. "Satisfaction is not lessened by being anticipated,"
Dave repeats, "The man who wrote that was really talking about reading old books.
Even though you've read them before and you know what's coming, they're still good
to read." Ben says he wouldn't know about that because he never got past Third Grade.
Dave tells him he was lucky and was able to attend college for a time studying medicine.
"Imagine being able to learn everything you need to know in a couple of years!" Ben
says admiringly. Just then they are attacked from behind by two masked rustlers, who
are then joined by a third rustler and make off with the horses.

Dave comes to and breaks the news to the Virginian, who is appropriately angry. Joe
Williams enters and tells them there is no use tracking them because it is three hours
till daylight and they'll have them all branded by then anyway. "You know how it feels
to lose $5000 when it isn't even your money? It's not just my boss, it's my friend!"
says the Virginian. Williams tells him of a local horse trader named Cal Hobson who
might have the stock they need; "He ain't got the best reputation around but then I
don't think you'll care who you do business with as long as they've got the stock you
need. Besides, he might be the one that took our horses." "Well, let's get at it! All
of us!" says the Virginian, poking Dave, who has laid down in bed. Ben voices his
objection to Dewey going along, but Williams overrules him, saying, "The boy goes."

In the morning, we see the Virginian meeting with Cal Hobson in Hobson's study. He
apologizes for getting him out of bed so early, but tells him he really needs those
horses. Hobson responds, "Well, that's me business. There's only one small problem,
though. I've been exceptionally lucky this season and I've managed to unload every
animal I've been able to get me hands on .... as your men outside are going to discover.
You didn't get me out of bed. I watched you ride in." "Well, they wanted to see what
kind of horses you had," replies the Virginian. "Joe was sold out, too, then? Williams?
I did recognize him, didn't I?" Williams and Ben enter. Hobson says to them, "I'm sorry
you didn't find what you were looking for ... There's nothing quite as discouraging as
making a long trip for nothing, isn't there?" "Nothing like it," retorts the Virginian,
"Nothing makes me quite so mad as having stock stolen out from under me." "Stolen!
You didn't tell me that," says Hobson to Joe. "Well now, we weren't sure we'd have to,"
says Williams. "That sounds almost like an accusation, Joe!" replies Hobson. Williams
says, "Let's put it this way. Seems kind of funny you ain't got any hands around.
Bunkhouse is as empty as your corrals!" "I give my hands time off! Don't you?" says
Hobson. Turning to Ben, he adds, "How 'bout that, Ben?" If Joe's too hard on you,
you can always come work for me. Double pay. I can always use a good buster." "Is
that a fact?" says Ben, "I always thought you weren't interested in horses unless they
were already broke!" Hobson snickers and the Virginian tells him, "If I ever find the
man who stole those horses, there won't be anything to laugh about."

Later, at Williams' ranch, Joe graciously tells the Virginian he can't accept his money
for horses he never got. The Virginian, equally gracious, tells him that it's his
problem since he had his own man, Dave, guarding the stock. The Shiloh foreman offers
a compromise. They should gather another herd and break them. Williams protests that
he doesn't have anyone to break them. "But you've got the best there ever was right
here--Ben Harper!" says the Virginian. Joe reponds, "Was is about right. By golly,
that man's been straddling mustangs fifteen years more than most men could. Why, Ben's
so bushed up, that ride out to Hobson's and back made him sore. He's not ready to admit
he's all washed up yet. Sometimes a man is one of the last to know a thing like that
about hisself. Now, mind you, I haven't said anything to him about it, but I've been
easing him out, kinda gradual-like."

Outside, Dave is disgusted with himself for having let the horses be stolen. Ben tries
to console him by saying that Dave is "new to these parts" and he (Ben) isn't. If
anybody should be taking the blame, it should be Ben. "I sure wish I could fix it so
that it would ease up on you," Ben says. "Maybe you can," says Dave, "Meaning you break
'em as fast as we can rope 'em! I know he's not going back there without 'em." "You
mean he's gonna try for a new herd?" asks Ben. "He would, maybe, if he thought you were
going to break them for him," says Dave. A skeptical Ben says he doesn't know if one
man can do all that. "Ben Harper can!" says Dave. Ben further protests that they'll
need hands to corral all the horses. "Maybe you can get some of the men to come back,
if you knew where they were," says Dave. "Oh, I know where they are," Ben replies.
He says they're at Soapie's, a saloon that "sits way out on the range all by itself."
"Old Soapie, she just sits and waits while the hands go out and sweat in the heat and
dust while fighting them wild mustangs and knowin' dang well they're gonna come draggin'
in her place anxious to spend all their pay on her whiskey and women!" "I'll tell you
what," he adds, "You and me, we'll ride down to Soapie's. We'll see if we can't talk
some of them boys into cuttin' short their hero-ing."

Ben and Dave ride out to Soapie's to recruit some hands. Over the objection of Soapie
and the men themselves, they are able to come away with a couple of recruits after
prevailing in a barroom brawl. When Dave presents the new hires to the Virginian, the
foreman notes the cut on Dave's lip and says, "Great! You go out to recruit men and
the first thing you do is get into a brawl. That's a great way to get people to hire
on!" Dave counters by saying that maybe the Virginian should have brought along someone
with more experience. The Virginian says that maybe he should have but, nevertheless,
Dave is the one he did bring and he should be using this experience to learn valuable
lessons such as not trusting everybody, such as the new hands and even Joe and Ben.
"Don't tell me you think Joe Williams had something to do with that robbery!" says Dave.
"No, he's an honest man. He tried to take full responsibility for the loss. No, I
trust him," the Virginian answers. "But you don't trust Ben!" Dave says incredulously.
"I don't know," replies the Virginian, "An old-timer like that starts letting men and
horses slip up on him, I've got to wonder why." "Ben Harper wouldn't have anything to
do with horse stealing!" Dave declares flatly, "Now look, I know you're under a lot of
pressure and I can appreciate that. But if your idea of experience means that I've got
to suspect a man like Ben Harper of being a horse thief, then I'm glad I'm still green!"

Williams, Ben and Dewey enter. Joe thanks Dave for hiring the extra men, but says they
still need more. Dewey speaks up, "Mr. Williams? There's one more if you count me."
"We don't!" says Ben. The Virginian asks him why not and Ben replies, "That's my private
business and not yours!" "All right," says the Virginian, "I'll agree to that. But I'm
hiring men. If Dewey wants to sign on, I'll just have to figure you've settled it between
you." Ben looks at Dewey and the other faces around the room. He knows he's licked and
Dewey signs on.

We next see the men out searching for a new herd. "Sure is pretty country!" says Dewey.
"It will be when we find a herd!" answers the Virginian. They do indeed find a new herd
in a valley. After setting up camp and building a makeshift corral, Dewey broaches the
subject of joining his father in "walking down" the herd. Ben adamantly says "no" and walks
away. The Virginian tells Ben that he'll be going with him. "I don't usual take nobody
along!" says Ben. "Well, we haven't got time to do things the usual way. We're gonna
have to double up on everything," says the Virginian. "He's right, Ben. If you run into
trouble, you might need some help," says Joe. Ben replies, "Then I'll choose my own company.
I'll take David." "Well, I've never walked down a herd before, Ben. Maybe you'd do better
to take someone more...experienced!" says David, casting a cynical eye at the Virginian.
"Ain't nothin' you need to know I can't tell you," answers Ben, "We just keep chasin' those
mustangs day and night so they don't get no time to rest. You'll do all right."

Out on the mustang trail, Dave tries to get Ben to open up about what's bothering him.
"It shows, huh?" replies Ben, "Gettin' Joe to bring Dewey--I don't want him here! ... He
ain't gonna be no mustanger. That's why!" "Maybe he wouldn't take to it anyway," says Dave.
"Of course he would. Just like I did!" says Ben, "Who wouldn't want to match wits with that
stallion out there? Most excitin' thing a man ever did! You'll see. You'll see just how
tricky it gets. Won't be long before he knows that I'm not just passing by. Then I'll follow
that manada right back over its own trail just where he left them. They run by night and
try to rest during the day. But I won't let them. Neither would Dewey! ... I saw it in his
eyes. He's got a natural born hankerin' for horses and I don't aim to let it get a firm hold
on him. A boy that smart can't spend the rest of his life on the range like I did." "Doesn't
he want to finish his school?" asks Dave. "It don't make no difference if he doesn't or not
--he's going to!" answers Ben.

The Virginian and Dewey ride out to meet the trackers. "Well, they left their flag. They
ought to be here pretty soon," says the Virginian. "I'm sure not anxious to see what Pa's
gonna say when he sees I've come along," says Dewey. "Well, he'll blame me for that," answers
the Virginian. "He used to like having me around," says Dewey, "Always did his best to keep
the family together. When I was school age and he left me with Mama in Fort Worth, even then
he'd get back as often as he could. Seemed like the only thing he had in mind was for me to
get an education ... It just took money. I had to take care of Mama when she got sick and I
had to work, too. Finally, there just wan't any money left. He made a lot of money in the
old days (depending on) how long he could stay with a bronc. If he wasn't too old to win
bets, I'd bet you he'd pile up enough to stick me back in school so fast I wouldn't know what
happened. But I don't see how we're gonna be able to do it on a dollar a day." The Virginian
points out that Cal Hobson offered him double the money. "Cal Hobson is a horse thief!" says
Dewey. "Well, no offense, I don't know of anything anyone's proved against Hobson yet," the
Virginian says. "I'll take Joe Williams' word for it!" says Dewey, "My Pa wouldn't be caught
dead even talking to him. Maybe he is a little hard-headed, but he sure ain't no horse thief!"
"Who isn't?" asks Dave, riding up. With Dave's attitude still frosty, the Virginian changes
the subject and asks how they're doing. "Ben says in about two days we'll separate the stallion
from the manada and then the men can start gathering up the horses," Dave answers.

We next see a montage of the men gathering up horses followed by Ben saddling up in the corral.
"Do you think this is a good idea?" the Virginian asks Joe. "He insisted," says Williams,
"Some things you just can't tell a man. He's gotta find out for hisself." Just then Hobson
rides up. He and Joe have words. Meanwhile, Ben tries to break a horse and is almost immediately
thrown off. As he writhes on the ground in agony, Dave and Dewey rush in to help him. Ben
refuses their help and Joe tries to apologize, saying he never should have let him try it.
"Let me? This is Ben Harper you're talking to!" says Ben. While this has been going on,
Dewey has grabbed the reins and is attempting to bust the bronco himself. Ben is aghast.
"Dewey!" he yells. To everyone's surprise, Dewey is able to succeed where his father had
failed. Although we can see that Ben was almost subconsciously rooting for Dewey, he walks
away in anger after Dewey breaks the horse. Dewey starts after him, but the Virginian warns
that he went off "somewhere where he could be alone." "I don't think he's too happy with
anyone right now, least of all himself. I wouldn't try to find him just yet. Besides, we've
got some talking to do," he adds.

While the Shiloh foreman and Dewey avoid him, Hobson discretely approaches Ben, telling him
that his offer still holds; "Every man comes to a crossroads, Ben. A time to look at things
as they are. To reevaluate. You know? Eh? For instance, there may be a way for you to
make more money in a few days than you've ever made in your life before and you'd never have
to look down on the ears of a mustang again--until he was ready to ride!" Ben's response
is to punch him and knock him down. "All right, Ben, I know how you feel!" says Hobson,
"You've got to strike out at somebody, but it doesn't change anything and you know it! Look,
I'll be at Soapie's for a couple o' days. You can ride out there and back in a night.
Nobody'll ever know you've gone. Think it over, Ben."

At that night's supper, Dave grabs a plate of food and tentatively walks over to the Virginian.
"Grab a spot. Get it off your chest," says the foreman. Dave voices his objections to the
Virginian having allowed Dewey to break the horse. "You saw Dewey ride. He's got the touch.
He's here and he's willing," says the Virginian. Dave answers, "Maybe there's something
more important than breaking horses or driving cattle or making a few more dollars a head.
Maybe what happens to a man who just wants what's best for his son is more important. Maybe
what happens to that boy is more important than what happens to a bunch of animals!" "Wait
a minute! I didn't ask in on their family fight!" the Virginian says. "Maybe not," says
Dave, "But you're in it anyway. You couldn't have gone more against Ben if you were trying!"
"I've got a job to do. If the job doesn't suit Ben Harper, well, that's just too bad.
It's going to get done!" replies the Virginian. Dave counters, "Well, he deserves more than
that! ... He almost got himself killed trying to ride that bronc because he wanted to help
me. He just didn't want me to have to feel responsible for losing that herd, so he offered
to help. He didn't have to do that! So you go on and tell me why he did!"

Early in the morning while the others are still asleep, Ben sneaks into the corral to try to
break one of the horses. He is unsuccessful and is thrown once again. This raises enough
of a ruckus for the others to come running in. "What are you trying to do, Ben?" asks Williams.
"You know plain well what I was tryin' to do!" answers Ben, "But I guess you was right, Joe.
I just ain't fast enough for 'em any more!" The Virginian looks around and in an almost
apologetic tone says, "Ben, that was a pretty hard-headed horse you had there. A little like
some people, you know, maybe. I mean, a man can get all wrapped up in buying horses and
delivering the best herd he knows how and, well, sometimes a man can forget that the other
fella's got something important on his mind, too. I mean, sometimes a man gets into another
fella's way and without really meaning to ..." Ben glares at him and walks away. "Give him
a little time," says Dave, "He's taken quite a beating for one day." "Only because he asked
for it," replies the Virginian, "And I'll tell you something else. He's wrong! Not because
he wants his son to have an education--because he's trying to force him into it. Dewey happens
to want the horse business. If you think there's something wrong with that, you haven't paid
much attention to those history books you read. You know, man would still be in his cave trying
to figure out what to do with the wheel if it hadn't have been for the horse! He'd never have
gotten near as far as he has on foot. He's got a sight further to go. If Dewey wants to help
him down the road, then I think that's his business. It certainly isn't any of yours--or mine!"

While bandaging Ben's wounds from his latest fall, Dewey says, "I can do it, Pa! I can be the
best! You saw me ride!" Ben again tries to discourage Dewey by saying that for him it was
exciting for a while, but he eventually came to hate the horses: "You spend a lifetime fightin'
em', you learn to hate 'em ... Every year there's new ones comin' along. Always young, but
you keep gettin' older. Yeah, I saw you on that mustang and saw myself. Now you look at me
and see yourself--twenty years from now!" "All right, Pa, fine! But who are we fooling?"
says Dewey, "It's gonna take more than you and I could save in a lifetime to beat the odds
on the outside. Sure, I'd like to take a whack at it if I had the money, but it's not gonna
happen and that's the truth!" "It could happen, Dewey. It can happen!" says Ben. "No, Pa,"
says Dewey, "This is where I belong! And I'm not gonna tear myself to pieces wishing I didn't!"

Later at Soapie's, Ben walks in and orders a beer. Hobson, who is playing cards at a nearby
table, tells Soapie to put the beer on his tab. Ben insists on paying for it himself. Hobson
sends the other men away and Ben approaches asking if the offer is still good. Without saying
a word, Hobson takes out a wad of money and tosses it to Ben. "Just one thing," says Ben,
"Those horses don't get touched till Joe Williams gets paid for them and they're on their way
to the Wyoming Territory. He don't deserve to take the loss. I ain't so fussy about that
Shiloh foreman!" Hobson takes a swallow of his drink and nods in agreement.

Ben returns to the camp and "apologizes" for not having been much help. The Virginian tells
him that they'll be ready to leave tomorrow. Joe is going back to his ranch and the other hands
are going to go along and help drive the herd back to Shiloh. Ben says that won't be enough
men, so he volunteers to go along, too, especially since it looks like he "ain't gonna get
Dewey out of here no other way." The Virginian agrees to hire him and Dewey at a dollar a day apiece.

Out on the trail on the way back to Shiloh, Ben is noticeably quiet. Dave asks him if he's
feeling okay and notes that he hasn't said much all day. "Ain't no need to!" he says, digging
his spurs into his mount to move away and avoid further conversation. Meanwhile, Hobson and
his men are following behind.

Early the next morning, while the Shiloh group is bedded down for the night, Ben arises at
4:30 AM for his watch. Dave awakens, too, to join him, but Ben says he'll take one of the
other hands instead. While on their watch, Ben fakes a noise. While the other watchman is
investigating, Ben sneaks up from behind and knocks him out. He then opens the corral gate,
releases the horses and is joined by Hobson and his men. After they leave, Ben knocks himself
in the head and lays down on the ground to make it look like he was attacked. Dave wakes up,
yells out, "The horses are gone!" and attends to Ben. "They couldn't have gotten much of a
head start. This time we trail 'em. Let's go!" says the Virginian.

Hot on the trail of the horse thieves, the Virginian notes, "If this is Hobson, he sure isn't
headed for home." "Straight for the border, it looks like," says Dave. "This would account
for the disappearance of the other herd," says the Virginian, "Far enough away so the brand
wouldn't be recognized." He consults a map and notes that "they're still heading south."
To Dewey, he says, "There's a little town about two hours ride from here ... Ride over there
and get the sheriff and maybe a couple of men if you can. When we catch up with those horse
thieves, I don't want there to be any doubt about the outcome."

After Dewey goes on his way, one of the hands, who has been scouting ahead, rides back and
tells the Virginian that he has spotted the herd and it is indeed Hobson who has taken them.
When he tells him that Hobson has about ten or twelve men with him, the Shiloh foreman says,
"We'll have to wait for Dewey for sure."

While waiting for Dewey to return, Dave approaches Ben and again asks him what's the matter.
"It's Dewey," says Ben, "With Hobson, there's bound to be shooting." He takes out a pouch
and buries it. He tells Dave that if he doesn't make it, he wants the pouch to go to Dewey.
"That's all I own in the world and I want Dewey to have it. Now you'll see to it, won't you?"
Dave somewhat hesitatingly agrees and Ben walks away. Dave is suspicious about the contents
of the pouch.

Dave walks over to the Virginian, who is trying to take a nap. "What's up?" asks the foreman,
"Want some jerky?" "Thanks, but I think I'm about to eat some crow," says Dave, "I think Ben
didn't want me to stand watch with him because he didn't want to have to hit a friend. I
think he's been avoiding me because he's got a guilty conscience and it wouldn't be easy for
him to talk to the one that's always stuck up for him ... I also think I let Ben get away
because I wasn't ready to believe it and ..." "Get away?" interrupts the Virginian. "I think
he left to warn Hobson," says Dave. "Are you sure?" asks the foreman. "No, but I think we
can be if we look inside a leather pouch that's buried over there," Dave replies.

Dewey arrives with the sheriff and posse and is anxious to go out after Hobson. Dave's
revelation has put a different twist on things, however. "Where's Pa?" asks Dewey. After
a long pause, Dave says reluctantly, "We think he's with Hobson. We think he's one of them."
"Liar!" screams Dewey, who jumps off his horse and start beating Dave with his fists.
The Virginian breaks up the fight and Dewey yells out, "My Pa's not a horse thief!" "I
don't want to believe it either! I hope we're wrong!" says Dave, who walks over, unearths
the pouch and hands it to Dewey. "He left this for you," says Dave, "I think you'd better
open it." Dewey opens the pouch and pours out the contents. First to tumble out is his
father's watch, giving Dave a brief feeling that he might have been wrong. But it is soon
followed by the roll of money. "I don't want this!" says Dewey. "You don't know where it
came from. Put it in you pocket," says the Virginian. "I'm going with you. I want to
hear it from Pa!" says Dewey.

We next see Ben on foot running into Hobson's camp to warn him. Hobson yells for his men
to get the horses moving. Ben says that he'll need a horse to get away, but Hobson wants
him to go back and try to delay them. "I can't do that! Sutton's on to me, I think!"
Ben protests. "Go back!" yells Hobson and he hits Ben on the head with his gun butt. The
Virginian and his group ride in and the showdown commences. After much gunfire and a few
casualties on both sides, Hobson sees that he's on the losing end and surrenders. Ben, who
has missed all the action while being unconscious, comes to and yells, "Where's Dewey? Does
he know?" "He's over here, Ben," says the Virginian, who is standing beside Dewey's dead
body. A grief-stricken Ben grabs the pouch from Dewey's vest and throws it away. He then
hugs his son's lifeless body and weeps as the episode closes. [rho]

A sad, depressing and ultimately tragic story, this nevertheless boasts a fine music score
and cinematography.
The Virginian and Dave Sutton reveal a tension throughout as Dave questions the foreman's
actions. Although at one point, he appears to wonder whether Dave may be right, the Virginian
turns out to have been correct in his thinking all along. Dave's relationship with the Virginian
in this and other episodes seems to be stiffer than the one he enjoys with Trampas. [rho]

William Hazlitt (1778-1830), whom Dave quotes early on, was a political writer in England and
a colleague of Shelley, Wordsworth, Coleridge and Lord Byron.

Ben and Dave both refer to a "manada." A manada is a herd of breeding mares running with a
stallion. The term is used mainly in the U.S. Southwest. (Thanks to novelist Kirby Jonas for
providing this information.) [rho]

Guest star notes:
This was the only appearance in the series for James Edwards and Chuck Daniel.

John Agar, who was once married to Shirley Temple, also appears in 2.24 "Another's Footsteps."

British-born Don Knight also guest-stars in 8.21 "A King's Ransom," where he plays an Australian.
Although he has a distinctive accent, his nationality here is unspecified. [rho] 

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  Main Contributor for this episode -  Robert Henry Ohlemeyer [rho]